Rejecting Hustle Culture — Creating Balance With Brad Sorock

Brad Sorock is the Founder and Owner of Returns For Sale, a universal marketplace designed to list and monetize returned products. Since his debut in the e-commerce industry in 1999, Brad has helped launch over 50 websites and is knowledgeable in distribution, internet strategy, SEO, and fulfillment. He is also the Founder and Owner of Loftopia, a lifestyle entrepreneurial business, and the Owner of Kestrel AU, a company importing, marketing, and distributing weather meters to Australia and New Zealand.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

Brad Sorock shares how he launched 50 websites within 24 years
How does Returns For Sale function as an e-commerce platform?
The advantages and disadvantages of not having competitors
What is causing the increase in online returns?
Brad recounts his near-death experience as a result of contracting COVID-19
Mindset and lifestyle shifts Brad pursued post-recovery
The impact of positive thinking on the human psyche
Practical ways for aspiring entrepreneurs to avoid succumbing to hustle culture
Leveraging the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) for business efficiency
Brad's philosophy on how vehicles reflect personalities
The value of exercising compassion on humanity

In this episode…

Entrepreneurs are known for their dedication to innovation. A hard work ethic is commendable but can be dangerous without instilling personal boundaries. How can you balance your schedule to make time for professional deadlines and personal interests?

Pivotal life events compel us to contemplate where we spend our time and energy — and if we use our precious time wisely. Brad Sorock, an entrepreneur in the e-commerce industry, learned what practicing gratitude meant after a near-death experience resulting from contracting COVID-19. After doctors confirmed he had hours to live, he could do nothing except embrace a positive mindset. He lives to tell the tale of how his inevitable mortality has conjured a desire to live life to the fullest. As hustle culture threatens mental and emotional health, Brad encourages aspiring entrepreneurs to create structure and balance in their personal and professional lives.

On this episode of the Up Arrow Podcast, William Harris welcomes Brad Sorock, Founder and Owner of Returns For Sale, who shares how his near-death experience from COVID-19 positively impacted his perspective on life. This is an in-depth discussion on the lifestyle changes Brad made post-recovery, how positive thinking impacts the human psyche, the value of exercising compassion, and practical ways to avoid hustle culture that motivate you to rethink your priorities.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by Elumynt. Elumynt is a performance driven e-commerce marketing agency focused on finding the best opportunities for you to grow and scale your business.

Our paid search, social, and programmatic services have proven to increase traffic and ROAS, allowing you to make more money efficiently.

To learn more, visit www.elumynt.com.

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Episode Transcript

Intro 0:03

Welcome to the Up Arrow Podcast with William Harris, featuring top business leaders sharing strategies and resources to get to the next level. Now, let's get started with the show.

William Harris 0:15

Hey everybody, it's William Harris here founder and CEO of Elumynt. And the host of this podcast where I feature experts in the D2C industry sharing strategies on how to scale your business and achieve your goals. My guest here today is Brad Sorock. Brad has been in e-commerce since 1999, and has started over 50 websites. He recently launched Returns For Sale to help websites with returns that can't be sold as new. He survived a near death COVID experience and 2020 we're gonna talk about that today. It has since shifted his life, including a four month on an off road trip. And one thing that you didn't have in here that I wanted to talk about too is you are in the book Traction with Gino Wickman. You are actually in the book and I talk about this book all the time. You're in the book, but I'm excited to have you here, Brad.

Brad Sorock 1:01

Oh, thanks. It's good to be here.

William Harris 1:06

Yeah, well, before we get into the good stuff, I will make sure we say the quick sponsorship message. This episode is brought to you by Elumynt. Elumynt is an award winning advertising agency optimizing e-commerce campaigns around profit. In fact, we've helped 13 of our customers get acquired with the largest one selling for nearly 800 million. And we were ranked as the 12th fastest growing agency in the world by Adweek. You can learn more at our website, www.Elumynt.com spelled e-l-u-m-y-n-t.com. That's it for the boring stuff onto the good stuff. I want to find out about your your journey to starting 50 websites like what was this like as far as you saying, Hey, I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm gonna go after this. What was this like?

Brad Sorock 1:49

Well, yeah, it does go back to 1999. And the world was a completely different place then. So but at the time, I had a specialty fly fishing outfitters business and a small ski town in Colorado. And we did Nordic skis in the winter. And so it was really specialty. And at the time, people were trying to be everything to everybody.com That would be babymall.com or plantedoutdoors.com. Pets.com. And I was on my bike one day. Well, what if we niche this down, and I'd already started. telemarkski.com, which most viewers won't know what telemark skiing is, but it's a form of downhill skiing with a free heel. And so I was the guru in this Telemark world that was doing reviews for QR magazine. And it was really fun it was It wasn't much money in it. But I thought about while I was riding my bike like what if I niche this down? Instead of like watches I did when I was selling Suunto watches, which is a high end Finish brand from Finland of altimeter watches. So I called up Suunto and I talked to my rep and they're like, this is a great idea. We've heard of the internet, this sounds great. And calm and and then my son was born and I had I was walking down the street and saw a jogging stroller and I looked up for jogging stores, it was babymall.com And it was just cut and pasted reviews and I decided I'm gonna write my own reviews. This is like unheard of, of the internet at that time. And and I did joggingstore.com. And so with that it just kept rolling and rolling of ideas at that time. It was the wild west of like, I mean, I was in my kitchen like I could do silverware.com I do forks.com Or just, you know, just anything and are just rolling and rolling. I'm not a coder. And by that back then you didn't have Shopify, it was really tough to get in how do I build a website? How do I do a cart you had to build your own? I mean, so I wound up partnering with a guy and that's when I learned about being I am this visionary, I don't really have a skill set. I just got a lot of great ideas and I'm good at relationships and I can talk my way through stuff. The first year we did was maybe $175,000 in sales I thought that was a whopping great way to go is working out of my house and then the next year we did 2 million in the next year we did 6 million in next year 10 million and just kept going and that's when I got involved actually a 2 million to a 20 year point of traction and that's why I'm in the book maybe with Gino we were his I want to probably his second client his first client was my partner but um, and Gino I remember it was you know, he's he does they all do a deal. You know, if you don't if it's not worth it, you don't pay for it. It was like $1,000 or something really absurdly inexpensive. And, and it was I was hesitant, but it was of course we did it. And it was just phenomenal. And I think the reason I'm in the book, I mean, we did have a classic visionary owner integrator, and then all the boxes underneath and I'm most known when he was writing the book, he reached out and said, Do you happen to have those saved accountability charts and I was like, actually, there's this thing called PDF. It's this new thing and we've saved so we had all those he was able to put them in the book. Wow was in some special that we were all that special but we were one of his first and when he was ready to book. So anyways, fast forward. And one of my big piece of my life was I grew that business we had about 85 employees at our peak did almost 20 million in sales. But I had a lot of questions of like, where do I want to be in Jena? What asked me that same thing. And I I was I didn't see myself as a guy who was going to run a half a billion dollar company. It's just wasn't it? This isn't in my cards. It's not who I want to be. I think that traject what we want to be and I'm not going to be a billionaire I don't want to be I don't need to be. And so I was questioning a lot of that. But ultimately, in 2009, with the crash, things started to turn Amazon wasn't was now our competitor when they were only selling books when we started the barrier to entry. Yeah, e-commerce was much easier now. Yeah, we had jogging store.com And we're selling 25,000 Jogging stores a year. But then there was jogging store for baby.com, joggingstrollersuperstore.com. It was just on and on, like, oh my god, competitions just crept up, they figured it out, instead of bidding two cents on what used to be go to and then Google bought them, but is now you know, now it was three hours of get a bid, I mean, sort of the world changed anyways. And on top of which, personally, I was going through a divorce. And I had young kids in 2011, I actually closed that business. And nobody teaches you how to close a business. In business school. Maybe they should, I don't know. But it's a it was a lot to go through. And I was in my apartment that I called Scratch because it's like starting from scratch. This is what it would look like. And I was really, I had a one point like I had gone through this divorce. I owed my ex wife a lot of money monthly for 10 years, I couldn't get out of it. I closed my business closing my business, which was going to take months to do. I was curled up in a ball in my apartment, like, how am I going to pay like next month's rent, let alone my ex wife and my son's private school and oh my god, and ultimately, it woke up on Monday morning. And that was like an anxiety kind of attack, I guess. And I woke up on Monday morning, and unfortunately, it was sunny out. And I remember it was like in May. And I was I was like only the only way to go is forward. And and I also had met with a bankruptcy attorney. And he said to me, I was like, I mean, could we go to jail for this? Like we owe these people money. And he put his pen down and he said, You know, there's no debtors prison. This is America. It sucks. You've lost everything you have. But you can start over and you can do this again. And so then I realized like, okay, it's in, he really helped me see, this is just a chess game. You can play this out all you want. So and then I was thought I'm a visionary as in the book of Traction. I'm this classic visionary. I've got ADHD, I'm all over the place. And they got bright and shiny out there. But what's nice, Ill like, what can I do? I gotta support my family or so. But I realized, I guess I know more than I thought I knew. And I also have a lot of what we call hutzpah. I had this like I can, I'll start something, I'll make it happen. And we slowly built this. And we had. And I'm a big believer of setting these goals, right? And I was set out to like, well, first, we're going to do this bridge. And we're going to set the intention setting intentions. And where's this? Where do I want to be? And where do I want to go with this in my life, both personally and professionally. And at the time, I remember sitting on the stoop of my apartment, and I'm just like watching the grass grow. And I had saw this guy riding his bike, or excuse me running down the street and his son with him. And his son was like, maybe five years old, he's riding his bike next to him. And I remember thinking, I used to do that with my dad, and I want to be around for my kids and the fight and project this. And set intentions, like first and foremost is going to be a dad, part of being a dad is providing for my family. So I have to do that. But so I set out with that intentions of a new lifestyle for myself. And fortunately, I was able to build and things are never as bad as they seem. I know it's a cliche, but it was true. And I got through and realize like what's really making me happy in life. And making me happy isn't thinking about how I could be doing or how other people are doing. Happiness is from within and the gratitude of the day and it could be anything from the sunshine. So that journey led me to guess for segwayed into where I'm at now. And so Oh, that what that business of $20 million. We had started at least 50 websites, I think by the end, you know, and there was huge successes. You know, it's probably the 8020 rule of 20% of our business of our sites were a percent of our business. So we had some failures we dropped off, but it was constant with my mind going to people. And so I now have a business. It's a distribution company down in Australia, which is really doing well. And it's really fun. And we're helping people. It's not totally my passion, because it's somebody else's business. I'm the distributor. Okay. And I found with myself, yes, it's rewarding. It's feeding my family. And I like to grow the business. And we are and I've got great people in place that took all I knew from Traction of right people right seats, and dig in and do that. And it's great. But I needed something to have a passion for. And I think, really, I think that everyone should have that whether it's your kids or ourselves, having or even I was just reading about a guy who's 100 years old that his son was saying, well, he has this passion. Like, that's what we need. And so in, some call it a hobby, you can do that, if you want. Whatever it is, it's just got to be a passion for something. So I've realized that I'm going to. I started helping with people work with returns, it was a major issue for us. We were getting returns for sale. Like I said, we're doing 25,000 jobs and stores, we had a low return rate of 3%. That's still 750 strollers a year that can't be sold as brand new. They've been opened. I mean, yeah, they can. They're in the box, they go on the shelf. So somebody tries it out. It's perfectly new. What do we do with it? Yeah, we could have eBay item. But I started this business called Returns For Sale. And now it's on the Shopify platform, which is so makes the barrier to entry so easy for anyone. And a lot of people have these returns, you try out this straw, or you send it back, well, what do we do with it? So now I can put it out. It's a little widget that goes on their website that says, hey, it's, this is what used to be 500 hours now, it's 400 hours, it'll drip at 1% a day. And I made it seamless and easy to post and it takes a minute or less. And it's it's really fun and really rewarding when I'm helping people get rid of these returns that can't be sold as new. And so that's been my, in my professional life has been my passion of helping people and it sort of been, cuz I make a good living. I'm like, it doesn't have to be about the money. I mean, yes, it is about the money at the end of the day, it needs to be profitable, but it's really I'm focused on how can I help you, and help you solve this problem with my tool, and maybe I can improve on this. And that's where my visionary skills come in. So that's where I'm at today. And my career path of how I got 50 websites. And

William Harris 12:39

that's a wild journey. It is I mean, if you would have told yourself, that would be your, your journey at the start of that you would never believe yourself, right? Like it's not something you could write down ahead of time and say this is where I will be, you do have to have, you know, a vision of it. But then you also have to be willing to kind of go through the open doors that are there. It reminds me of you're talking about like moving forward. And I know Disney has a quote, which I think is just literally keep moving forward, which is one of my favorite quotes. There's a verse in the Bible that I liked. It's along those lines to Proverbs 16:9, it says in a man's heart, he plans his paths, but the Lord directs his steps. And just the idea that it's like, look, have your plans, but be willing to allow your steps to be directed, you know. And I think there's just so much to be said for you being able to see this, to take those steps to pivot where you needed to pivot. But ultimately, the core under all of those really was helping people that was the core of all of these businesses, you wanted to do it. So you're like, hey, I want to review these to help people find what they need to have, or now it's okay, I found this problem for myself that other people have these problems, too. How do I solve these returns problems? And that's kind of like central theme to that. Would you agree?

Brad Sorock 13:53

Yes, absolutely. Yes. I mean, I mean, there's another quote that John Lennon said, you know, life is what we do while we're busy making plans. And I look back and told myself, you know, now that I'm 53 years old, I certainly have a lot more I didn't understand at the time, this wisdom of life and maybe I probably would have said to myself, like just relax like everything's gonna unfold as it should, but you can't really see that when you're 30 years old starting the business. It's go go go and I got to do this. And so it's been a really fun journey, but the entrepreneurial path is it's not for everybody I really I've realized that like, why don't other people start this it's so obvious like well, not everyone quite has that and and that's okay to the world needs those people to Yes, so we just have to well, we just go with it. What are knowing yourself to know yourself is the foundation stone of all your knowledge? Yeah, so yeah. So

William Harris 14:52

tell me a little bit more about you know how Returns For Sale works though, because I know that a lot of people listening have e-commerce stores. They are experiencing the exact same problems that you're experiencing? What is this? How does this actually go about solving it versus just doing it on eBay?

Brad Sorock 15:09

Well, so yes. So there's all sorts of everybody. Well, maybe not everyone, but most companies have this problem. I use the jargon store, but say it's a pair of shoes. Okay, so you sell a pair of shoes, somebody wears it, once they get a blister. In this day and age, you kind of got to take it back. You can't say no, you wore it once. We used to say that. But you have to take it back if you've got to be competitive because Zappos does. And so what do they do with it? And then you need this strategy of what are we going to do with our returns that can't be sold as new, and maybe you have a store and it goes out there and it goes on the street and, and they get piled up and you sell those shoes, that's one option. Maybe you're at a place where you can have a warehouse sale. eBay is a good option in certain scenarios. But that's it costs a lot. And it takes a lot of time to implement that it's input that it's not automated. Right now, on the Shopify platform with mine, one of the goals that I worked with, as a, as the visionary of this was in a speak to my developer, you know, we talked a little about, like, the art ways, we said, like, I see this as my art in that I saw this artist that at a street fair, and he had this beautiful big sculpture and like, how did you even like, build this? And he said, you know, man, it's like, that's what it took, is it? That's what it takes of an artist to get something in your head? How do you make it? Yeah, what do you form this? And yeah, that was the whole thing. And that's why I'm an artist. And I thought, it's kind of what I'm doing to really mean I guess. entrepreneurialism is an art in this, I had this idea. And I put it on a napkin when I thought about it and drew it out this widget, and then I put it on paper, and then I have a developer that's going to build it. So all right, we got a chicken. Why not? Time? I've had someone do this. Does the chicken have a name?

William Harris 16:58

I don't know their names. My daughter's all know the names. I can't keep them apart.

Brad Sorock 17:03

You know and chicken key of or is it like

William Harris 17:06

they do they do have some funny names. They have some also very normal names. I think one of them's like cruiser just just for fun. But I think there's a Henry at others. Well, there's like It's like Henry the Eighth, I will say that the the dumbest chickens that we've ever had are called silkies. And they're really funny looking chickens, but they have no sense of self preservation at all. They will just walk right up to the dogs or anyway, they're just like, Hi, how are you? Like, let's meet and hang out and be friends. And the dogs are like, Oh, good. Like, just chew on your neck. Yeah, this is fun. Or these are eggs for food or for fun. Yeah. Yeah. Eggs in fun. Never for food, at least for these ones.

Brad Sorock 17:48

Right? Yeah, that'll be a tough day when you have to figure out what to do with an aging chicken with kids. Maybe there'll be hopefully they'll be old enough by then.

William Harris 17:55

Well, they don't live very long. So we've handled it already a couple of times. You know, we don't, once they're once they're old enough if they die on their own. I don't want to take a chance. I don't know what whether it's healthy to eat or not. I'm not not that good. Farmer. Right. So we just

Brad Sorock 18:12

write and that's nice. He looks like

William Harris 18:15

that's it. Very tangential. Back to the ADHD thing. I was like, Oh, I knew that you would appreciate this at least that I could bring in chicken on this show. for another reason, a buddy of mine, Aaron Orndorff. He's got his rabbit every once in a while sometimes it was like I'm gonna pull up him I'm gonna I'm gonna bring a chicken on the show. So there you go.

Brad Sorock 18:33

Yeah, I assume you're home and you don't bring the chicken of the office?

William Harris 18:37

No I'm at home yeah, no. Yeah, exactly. But we were talking art and I interrupted with a chicken I apologize.

Brad Sorock 18:47

Right that's the ADHD is all good. So that art so I was able to put it to a napkin to a piece of paper to the developer and I'm assuming you're still in there

William Harris 19:02

I am. I'm just letting the chicken back outside

Brad Sorock 19:05

so so we put it to piece of paper and so that was the art okay yeah, so I in part of it was this is where it was was it needs to be take less than a minute we can't have this like eBay can take 10 minutes maybe if you're really good seven minutes I mean, and I was I would test and test it's gotta be under one minute okay, well, all these things that I had in mind that have to be are going to be It can't be intrusive I want this easy to use on the back end we don't need a whole bunch of return products building up and then you got all these all these just nil products so it disappears once it sells and make the widget disappears from the website. So I haven't been in e-commerce for 20 plus years and having been on I was Shopify number 525,023 back in 2011. Now they're up to like near 2 million. I bet through Shopify, a lot to not know like, alright, well, this is how it needs to work on the back end. So if you want to be on the front end, we got to work with themes. So I have had a fair amount of experience that helped me do it. But don't get me wrong was like, it's still as the entrepreneur, that not everyone is it you have to be able to take that step. Like ultimately, it's like, alright, should I go for it? I think it's a good idea. When you're going out to, to people I was, at first I was like, I don't want to tell anyone my idea. Like, whoa, this is, you know, I may patent this, and it's, it's my idea, someone's gonna take it. And then I was like, This is crazy. Like, just let it go. Like, the idea is helping people, is someone really going to take this and run with it. But I wanted to get feedback. And the best feedback you get is like, Oh, dude, you can't do that. Because or that's not a good idea, like telling me that shoot it down. Sure. And nobody was shooting it down. And I was talking to other e-commerce owners, and everyone had similar reaction you like everyone needs this, don't they? Like, how do you get rid of returns? So I was feeling confident. And ultimately, I had to roll the dice and write a check and say, All right, let's go for it. And of course, in my position, as I'm not a developer, everyone wants maybe I could find a developer to partner with. That would be great. And then it will be free. And yeah, I think developers probably get hit up like that constantly. And my developer was like, tell us your idea, man, you know, you want to go for word, go for it. So we can talk down the line out. And so I'm like, yeah, it's my idea. I'm going for it. And that's the chutzpah like, Alright, go for it. Yeah. And unfortunately, then there with anyone from Jeff Bezos on down, there is some luck and timing. And I happened at a ECF thing where I met you, I was at one of those and I ran into a guy who's got an automotive store and we want to return is like, oh man has a huge problem. We got pile on the warehouse. In fact, it's one of our rocks speaking traction to him for my operations guy to get rid of what are we going to do with our returns? I was like, I got this idea is like, yeah, we'll look at it. Yes, sir. I'll send it to him, shoot me an email. And I sent him an email and the guy's like, this is actually kind of cool. This might help us. And so they tested and tested and within four months, they had it up and they were selling returns like crazy. Now they have 1000s on there, because yeah, it's really I didn't even think of automotive. I was more in my own baby rule of jogging strollers or shoes or Shinola. And it's like, oh, yeah, you try it a muffler. It doesn't you start the engine, it doesn't sound right. You send it back. It's missing some bolts, dinged or whatever. And they can't sell it as new. It's sitting in the corner for 2006 Subaru Forester, you know, like, it's so specific. Now they have this tool and they love it. And so it and then I so that was my luck and timing, I think to have that first client that happened to be a, you know, 30 plus million dollar company to give it a go. And so that actually I started to get more automotive because their competition saw it and then sure, I was able, it just kept it keeps snowballing and it we're still growing. And I'm I've set my my goals and my rocks and my b hag, if you will. The area dosis big, hairy, audacious goal. So all the lingo Yep. 100%. So we're all into that as business owners. So um, yeah, it's, is it working? That's the thing is I've proven this. And one things is that there's no competition. And one of the worst things is there's no competition. Nobody knows I exist. Sure. Oh, it's getting it out there. And I'm sure I'll get competition one day when it gets big enough. But I'm also so far ahead and down the line of figuring things out that I can't be afraid of the competition. And just like with jogging store, and I was in the we had jogging store superstore below us, we were still the best at it, and you just got to play your own game. Eventually, you know, Windows and Mac, they they're they coexist. So we, so it's worth,

William Harris 23:56

we can go ahead and call out who that store is, as long as you're okay with it, because he actually booked to be on the show. Just today he booked for for his time. So that's Chris carry me performance. Absolutely brilliant. Leader there as well. They sold that had a real good acquisition there. But it just he's done a very good job building that company up as well.

Brad Sorock 24:16

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's a great guy. And he's a really good business guy. And yep, he did so. And the new company, I was like, oh, what's gonna happen? And they're like, No, we love this. Oh, my God. They wish they could use it on their other sites, but they're not on Shopify. So I feel like

William Harris 24:35

this is one of those apps that somebody should have right now more almost than anything else. And in a couple of things that I like about this, the couple of the problems. I'm seeing a trend with a lot of increased returns for people and I don't know if you're noticing this as well, but looking at a lot of websites, there's an increase in returns. And I think there's two possible reasons for this that are probably playing a part one is whether we want to call When a recession or not, we're in a financial downturn. And so people will sometimes buy things and have some second dial so they were at once it didn't get the reaction they wanted or whatever, right. And so they're returning stuff. And the other reason is, I know that there's a, an increase of people who buy from multiple stores just to see which one gets there faster. And then returning other ones. Now, that's not us. So it's a little bit different. But the idea here is there is an increase in returns and having a process and an app that can very quickly streamline that, that is cash flow, and cash flow right now is absolutely King. So I think that's what

Brad Sorock 25:34

they were saying, like they had this pile and it's just the CFO looks at it. Like, this is an we got to get rid of this current asset here. Like we want to get move this and so absolutely. I mean, there's situations where okay, like, makeup doesn't work. You don't want to spread herpes, you can't also I was gonna say sex toys, you can't return. However, I do have a sex toys site using it. And I sent them an email like, I don't know, man, this is like he's like, No, it's all our samples. I was like, oh, yeah, that's really right. So they're using it for that. I mean, clothes, usually put them back on the shelf, although I've had a couple of successful clothing stores. But yeah, so we'd write anyone who's gets returns that can't be sold as Oh, I called Allbirds. Because they're on Shopify, oh, there's some big sites. And they were like, This sounds cool. But we actually donate the returns like, alright, well, as long as you've got a solution. I mean, I'm not in this to just be greedy and try to take it's right. I want to be helping if you got a solution. That's good. That's,

William Harris 26:35

yeah, it well, and if you could donate even even better, but that's not true for a lot of businesses, they need that cash flow to keep the business going. So

Brad Sorock 26:42

Right. So it's really fun helping people. It is let's,

William Harris 26:45

let's, you know, I there's so much that I want to talk about with that. But I know that you also had something else you told me about that I really want to make sure we get to and we call it out a little bit here hinted at in the introduction, your COVID story. And while maybe, you know, somebody hears the word COVID. And they're thinking, I want to run away from anything that has to do with COVID. I get that. This is interesting. And I think part of your journey of where you're at right now. And like this mindset shift that you've had, I don't want to steal anyone's thunder. Walk us through this.

Brad Sorock 27:16

So right, so I was 2020, early COVID. Or not too early, thankfully. But I contracted it with I was playing hockey, I'm in really good shape. I workout I train. I meditate I eat right, I did not think I was a candidate for severe COVID. And I do have a heart issue that wasn't listed as one of the preak you know, the preexisting conditions, but it turns out, it probably was they can't confirm that but I believe it was so anyways, I contracted COVID And it started off it felt like the flu sort of thing, but it kept getting worse and worse. And this is October of 2020. So it was post them saying hey, we're not we're doing using ventilators. So they had stopped doing that. That was the school then and then it was pre vaccine of course and it was also pre that big wave like just like a couple of weeks before the the next big wave if you can remember back in 2020 So So anyways, I have it and it's getting worse and worse. I'm at home like the love of my life here. My girlfriend of we've been living together 10 years we have a blended family and we were locked in here. Nobody who could even walk our dog people were afraid at that time that sure maybe contract it from the dog or we couldn't do our own groceries and it was like really, it was really hard on the family. But ultimately I am to the point where I can't breathe at home I and my fever is is over 103 For days I gotta get in. And I started to then get completely just seen allusions and it was I saw we call I went to the hospital and it was a dramatic moment because I am like the anti hospital on the anti drug sort of thing if I can do it naturally I will sure. And I get to the hospital. And soon as I got on oxygen I knew it was this is where I need to be. But it did keep getting worse and they started off with just a little like grandpa sort of nose thing to this. Eventually a hairdryer going up my nose. That was the first hospital that like if we need to move you to the ICU you need like more oxygen. And ultimately I'm on this mask and I'm breathing like this and I'm in the ICU. And I don't know if viewers have ever or listeners have been in an ICU before but it's the windows are glass you can see body bags going by and cleaners coming in and I am in a COVID only hospital now at this point and which was Bethesda which was here and it was in St. Paul and so and I can't see anyone everyone's got just their eyes lit showing and even then there were in glass As in some are dressed in the full et thing. I have no connection like that human connection and I had a, an iPad there where I could call home and it's just getting worse and worse. And ultimately I wake up. I mean, I'll go into the story and I'll try to make it briefer than I normally would. But I wake up after a long night of trying to sleep, it's breathing for me that the machines are going in the room. It's so loud and beeping and and I took a valium to try to sleep and I wake up and I look and I see, Dr. Goldberg is standing next to me. I'd never seen Dr. Go but he's got a nametag. I'm a Jew, I say to him, I said, Dr. Goldberg, I'm in the tribe. Like I would never say that. I don't know what caused me to say that. I'm a rabbi, and I'm here to pray with you. And so we do the Shma, which is like this whole prayer, that I happen to have done business with Hasidic Jews. And so every time I do, I'm going to do to fill in and we do the SMA. I'm not a very religious person, I identify as a Jew. But I did the smart I know it and as soon as we finish, like the last word, and he gives me this coin, and he puts it in my hand, he says, All things are unfolding as they should and things are meant to be and you're gonna be okay. You're gonna live through this. And I was like, my eyes are glowing. And I'm like, and I'm almost like, I couldn't cry. I couldn't even couldn't go cough couldn't sneeze, though. It was so it was like being on Everest, it was full of, of COVID in my lungs. With that, he's finishes it, the doors open. And they slide me in. This is what I realized why they have Gortex sheets in the hospital, and they slide me onto a gurney and they are running me down the hall. And I'm masking what's, what's happening. What's what's happening. They're like, we think you have a blood clot in your heart. And I'm like, Oh, my God, and I get in there, we get the results. There's no blood clot, I come back. They reel me in the room, and they're like, listen, we got to tell you something. I said, Listen, where's the route? I need to talk to Dr. Goldberg. And they said, there's no rabbi here. And I said, No, Dr. Goldberg was right here. I was with them when you guys came to get me and they said, I'm sorry. There's no Dr. Goldberg here. And there's no rabbi here. And I have to tell you, you have you got about 20 liters left, we can give you what? And I said, Well, what does that mean? They said, You got about two hours to live, you need to get your affairs in order. And I said, Oh my god, I could not believe like, oh my god, like you didn't five in the morning. And so I'm like, trying to like call my carry my love and, and it's ringing. She's not getting I went to find my iPhone. And I start pinging it. So it makes it loud noise and she wakes up and she calls and she's, she's hysterical. And I said, Listen, I this is what they've told me it I swear there was a Dr. Goldberg. I don't know what's happening. I prayed with a rabbi, but like, I gotta go. And she's like, where are you going? And I said, I just got to tell you remember the 911. Doc. And so and we have everyone should if you're listening, like, we have a of course I have a will. But there's a 911 Doc, that's a shared doc with her that just says what are my passwords to my phone, my password to my computer? Where's everything? How do you run my business? You know, just the how to have scenario if something happened. And so and she says, okay, and she's crying, and I couldn't cry. And so in one to think about if you want to sit and pause and think about this, what do you do when somebody says, and you're tied into a hospital bed, and you have two hours to live, and all I could think of is, well, I'm not going to call my kids because I never thought it was going to die. And I didn't want to go there. And I just the next, if I have two hours live, every thought forward is going to be positive. And so there's no saying I'm not going to die. That's a negative, I'm going to live and I went through my whole life from my very first memory I have. I actually even remember probably because I was late at potty training. But I remember my mom changing my diaper like I have. I went back to gratitude for everything I could think of going up throughout my life. I've got time here a couple of hours and gratitude to the day I was at so all the people around me. And we'll did this Rabbi exist. And I you know, and do this. Was this just a call as somebody sent to me and and where do I want to be forward? And what do I want to be going forward and I'm you know, I've been putting off this little van life thing for a long time, I want to buy a van and one day, I'm going to walk my daughter down the aisle and the things I'm going to do in my life. And so with that, by the way, I then realize remember that he gave me a coin and I look around for the coin. Don't have it and I call the nurses in they come in they put their outfit on that have to do every time they walk in and I'm like where's the coin and they look around and sure enough they find the coin and like he did exist. He did exist. And I'm holding the coin and turns out a side story Carrie called the doctor's office. The reason they don't know who it is because everyone's from everywhere. This COVID Only ward that was like, people were flying into flight and nurses and doctors so they didn't know who he was. And they were just moving along. But anyways, they didn't even know he was a rabbi. So then Kari says close calls the doctor and he says you know really good faith that this guy is going to make it and she says, Wait, see your doctor and a rabbi? He said, Yeah. And she said, Your mother must be so proud to say so. Anyways, I had this hope. And I felt another breath about 10 minutes, I don't know, a half hour into it. I'm like, I feel something. It's like almost like a fever broke, but I didn't have a fever. And they said, Oh, we're not going anywhere. And sure enough, I slowly got better and better. What did it was it the drugs was at the time was the belief. And the rabbi was who? No, it wasn't my attitude, I don't know. But I sort of been sticking with this, that we play the game at home, if you can, we try and say like, let's for the next hour, everything's gonna be positive, let's not say a negative thought and be positive about our lives and how much we have to be grateful for. And so and by the way, from the hospital bed, I bought a new Mercedes van bear cargo van and I then spent the last two years building it out. And I found a new passion, as we're saying about passion. And I also put work a little nor my work is very important. I love my work. But it doesn't have to be the top priority in my life. And so I've moved that down on the totem pole of importance. And I have an I've been an AI. So I've been getting on the road with Kerry and with alone. And so. And to top off, as you said earlier, in the show that I had, for the last four and a half months, my kids both graduated high school, I have two stepkids that I love and they live here, but I've also seemed to carry like, I have to have to go a little bit and I got on the road. And I've just been traveling the road and I just love it been this van that I built out all by my own self with a couple of friends helping here and there, but and, you know, I've had this slight traveling in the light sort of feel. And one time I was the story that you and I had mentioned earlier was

I was traveling across Texas, and I get to ivaldi. And I camped out there in my van one night I'm driving from there, I forgot the next town, but it was a good Oh, a 60 miles in and I'm getting hungry for breakfast, and I decide I'm gonna pull over and make myself some breakfast, I'm in no hurry at all. I have no time. I'm not even sure what day it is it doesn't. I don't label anything like that when you're on the road, you just get to be and sure I pull over and I'd been kiteboarding down in the Gulf of Mexico. And this, I'm working my way to Tucson. And I as I pull into this roadside, picnic table, there's a homeless man walking, and we are 60 miles from any town in a desert. And he's walking and he happens to be coming at the same time I'm coming in to this spot to this little picnic area with shade and some picnic tables. And he while he's walking over to me, and so it's got a fanny pack. And we're in Texas here like anyone can carry a gun. And I'm sure to get into that for a second. And I thought like I travel in the light, like let's just be a place of trust, and everyone's a human being. And so he said he walked up and he's reaching in his fanny pack. And he pulls out a phone and he says, Do you think you could charge my phone for me? I'm really having a bad day. And I said, Absolutely. Would you like some breakfast and eyes lit up and we wound up having I gave him I had an ice bowl was never at ICE. And I had made a smoothie for him. We wanted to talk for an hour about just our life stories. And he's a little bit younger than me in his 40s. But he he had a really just great story of how he even wind up to this place. But how this even happened in life. And he was just a human being I gave him a little money and I set him on his way. And had I been going I didn't go in the way I was going I would have taken him but it was back and I actually now look back and like, why don't I just turn around and help the guy and take him to I don't know, like, but we went our ways. And it was he was so grateful. I was grateful. We just had this like smiling, magical shared experience of each other. And and I'm because I believe I'm open to what's coming my way. And trying to take things with positive light. So just a little bit of a COVID story.

William Harris 39:17

Yeah, yeah, more than a little bit. I mean, I don't know if you saw it was up there trying to show it's like I got goosebumps here. Although I think now that's called like ASMR or whatever. But I mean, I you know, just just chills down my spine as you describe this. And I, one of the things that you said that I really like, was the idea of, you know, thinking positively. And I think that sometimes, maybe in our modern age, we are so quick to dismiss that as being maybe not real science. But there's so much to this. And there's two things along those that I like one is Simon Sinek has something he talks about with that idea of like, you can't think of the you can't think of the negative or whatever you can't like I think of something I forget exactly words. But he says, you know, don't think of an elephant. And sure enough, you know, everybody's brain thinks about an elephant. And he said skiers will say something to that effect to where it's like, if you're skiing, you don't say don't hit the tree, don't hit the tree, don't hit the tree, because then all you see are the trees and you're gonna run into the tree and you know, you're skiing down, you say, see the path, see this path, see the path, and then the trees always disappear. And you see the path and, and I liked that, though, to the same idea of what you were saying, which is just, you know, don't focus on I'm not gonna die, I'm not gonna die, I'm not gonna die focus on I'm going to live, I'm going to live I'm going to live. We recognize it. I think in athletics, where you know, golfers will tell you that they see the putt go in before they put it. But I've actually seen medical studies that back this up very well, there was a study, I believe it was in 2008. Cleveland Clinic did this. So this isn't some small rinky dink place where you're not sure why. Where they actually had people imagine working out, I think it was maybe over the course of eight weeks, just pretend in their minds pretend that they were working out and I think it was, you know, bicep curls or something like that. And at the end of these eight weeks, their strength had gone up by I want to say it was like 25% increase in strength and their biceps. They didn't work out, they just imagined working out. And so I think that we miss understand just how powerful our thoughts are. And then even maybe taking that a step further. Our words are. And so I think

Brad Sorock 41:25

you're some of that says the words are your wand. Forgot who's came up with that, but it's true. And I agree that my saying is don't look where you don't want to go. And we used to Nordic ski and ski and try to stay in the tracks and get out of the tracks. Don't look where you don't want to go stay on that track. And same thing, Ramon, right, don't look over the edge. When you're on Sean, Cliff, just look where you want to go. And then there's this one. I'm going to read this because it's on my desk every day. It's from Viktor Frankl who wrote Man's Search for Meaning. Everything can be taken from a man but one thing the last of the human freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way. And he of course, was a Holocaust Auschwitz survivor. So yes, and so that's been sort of a theme in my life now of what's the priority, saying, you know, as Warren Buffett says, saying no, is one of the most important things and getting rid of things that are taking negative energy from me, or taking that negative energy and yeah, my attitude on life, it's been really I now I can look back and think I'm really grateful for that 2020 COVID experience that I had, I don't really wish it on anyone in just a correct you sit near death, eyes view the near death experiences as someone who sees the light, I was never there. I say close to death, but okay, so yes. For those

William Harris 42:52

Well, yeah, for the pedantic send us when I just literally forgot where I was gonna go with that. But I don't know. I lost my train of thought on that one. But okay. So if we go back to the idea of let's say that a lot of other people who are listening, feel the same way entrepreneurs who are saying, Yeah, I would like for that to be my priority, maybe haven't had to go through that experience, where they're saying, I see the value in what you're saying. And I would like to figure out how to deprioritize some of the craziness of the hustle culture within entrepreneurship. What are practical ways to do that? And I know that sometimes it's easy to just say, hey, we just got to do it. But like, Are there practical things that you've been able to implement to make that happen?

Brad Sorock 43:41

It's honestly been more of, it's more on just my attitude. I'm a human being and I have chosen. I used to hear when people said, you know, happiness is like a fleeting moment, I've taken the different approach of like, No, I'm living in this gratitude, piece of place of gratitude and happiness. But anger happens. Sadness happens, grief happens. So we're just humans, we're all going to experience all these things. But from the core, I'm going to be in this place of, of really, it's gratitude. I mean, happy is kind of a funny word. I don't know. We all want our kids to be happy. Like what does that what not happy? Yes. We want to be present and I'm certainly I miss I don't want to be on my phone that much. But sometimes I am and I had been sucked into a real I'm not I'm being sure to hammer that stuff. But you know, other than YouTube or whatever. So we're fighting. It is it's a constant practice. That's all it is. It's practice just like in the game. You don't score every goal you every shot, you shoot Naki but we practice and so I've been really gentle on myself to have days where there it's not for optive and I got stuck into doing something I didn't want to do. Like, it's okay. Like, this is just part of the journey. And it's my attitude is really. And I'm not as in a rush anymore. And I don't I mean, I certainly I know, friends of mine. And I've told the story too with the COVID. And they're like, you kind of had that attitude before. And I guess a little bit I did, my mom's certainly preached to me of that everything happens for a reason. And this too shall pass and all the things we've heard. To have this was really an in your, in my face. Lie immortal. I'm not going to be here forever. Yeah, and let's make the best of these days. And what's really important? Do I need a you know, what's more important, a new thing? Or is an experience with my children? I'm going to choose that experience every time.

William Harris 45:53

So well, in that reminds me of a parable. And I don't remember how old this is maybe, you know, ancient ancient parable talks about there's a, I'm probably gonna butcher there's a lot of variations out there. There's like a farmer. And his, I think it's something along the lines of maybe his horse runs away and his neighbors come over and they say, oh, you know what terrible, you know, misfortune you've had, he goes, Well, whether it's good or bad, I don't know, right? And then it's like this wild horse comes up, and they catch this wild horse. And they're like, Oh, well, good luck. You have it, because well, whether it's good luck or bad luck, I don't know. And, and then his son starts, you know, like learning to ride the horse and gets kicked off and breaks his leg and think, oh, what terrible luck you having? Well, whether it's good or bad, I don't know. And then the army comes in recruits, you know, every able bodied man in their village. And they're like, you know, they can't take the son then because he's injured. He broke his leg, and they go, oh, what good luck you have, and whether it's good luck or bad luck? I don't know. And, and I think so, so many times, we're so quick to assign whether something is good or bad, without realizing all of the other implications that result from this. And so, to your point, it's like was getting COVID a good or a bad thing? Well, you know, in this situation, maybe it was exactly the right thing that needed to happen for you to be in the position that you are to learn what you needed to learn. And I think it's good for us to recognize that we have unique autonomy over how we how we learn and grow from every situation in life.

Brad Sorock 47:22

Yes, our attitude. That's our attitude on life. You're right. And you didn't butcher too bad. It's a Zen Buddhist story. There you go. And the sculpt Good luck, bad luck.

William Harris 47:33

I should have had you tell it.

Brad Sorock 47:35

No, you got the main point across. You're absolutely right. And I think about that often when something happens that, that we just don't know. I mean, my daughter is 19. She just scored 18. She just got a ticket. And she called me just upset like, you know, but maybe it's saved her from some development, we don't know. And I just decided, I can show up and I can reprimand or whatever, like, alright, you need to slow down like, what did you learn? I don't have to take it as a bad thing. So yeah, I'm trying to do that with a lot. I say trying because it is always a practice. Sometimes we react and I try to work on let's not react, let's just respond and how do we turn this into a positive? And how can I change what I just thought or said into a positive? Yeah. So

William Harris 48:20

yeah, another piece of practical advice I would I would recommend to anybody that's listening that I think you would agree with and tell me if you disagree, is if you haven't already probably implement EOS or some version of some type of entrepreneur operating systems, something like that. Because, you know, it's very easy as entrepreneurs to get into that crazy cycle. And you need to have that process where you can have the right people in the right seats, and you have the structure, and you enable your team to be able to make decisions. And I was on that path for a while. And we just implemented EOS maybe about almost maybe two years ago now. And it was a game changer for me right? At the point where it's like I could finally start shifting some of that burden on to people who are maybe even better qualified to handle some of those things, because I was able to get out of my own way, if that makes sense. Yes. Oh,

Brad Sorock 49:10

my God, particularly like I didn't go to business school. I'd been in business a long time. I didn't know how to build a $20 million company. And you're right, in that whether it's vert Irish as one there's a handful of them out there us is a great one. But you're right and having it's with a facilitator, or they calm implementer. They have it's like having a therapist there where you decide what are your roles? What are your roles, and what's his roles or her roles. And so, and coming up with a plan and setting up as long as if while I'm thinking I want to be a $20 million business and my partner is like, I just want a lifestyle. $3 million is, well we're on different pages. So we need to get on the same page. And once everybody's on the same page and going in that direction. It's much more powerful and frankly, more fun and Um, yes, I do recommend that I only know a couple successfully that did it themselves and as a unique kind of person, but I'm a big believer of having hired therapists. I mean, my girlfriend and I go to, we go to therapy every now and then we sometimes we gotta like, we need a third party or to hash this out, because I'm not seeing your way. You're not seeing mine. mediator. Yeah, yes, yes. And so the implementers are really phenomenal. And those two day retreats you do that's part of the program. And yeah, I'm a big fan. Obviously, Traction’s a great, it's a great book, it's a great process. And those by the way, Gino didn't invent anything there. I mean, maybe he's got some trademarks on something, but he's really taking other people's ideas. And he just kind of lumped it all together, there's sure it was Jim Collins Good to Great who did the B hag the big, hairy, audacious, audacious goal, and there's all those even took some from verb, it's, it's just putting it together to a system and I strongly believe in him.

William Harris 50:58

Well, I, you know, if you're, if you're an entrepreneur, then oftentimes you see maybe the breakdowns in a lot of other systems. And you're, you're quite sure that you can come up with a better system, right? And I can remember being in that boat for a while I was like, Well, I'm just going to create my own entrepreneur operating system more or less, right? It's like, I'm gonna do this and this and this. The reality is, that's not my business. And so I'm focused on my business, I'm not focused on doing that. And you never get around to actually creating this thing that you thought that you would make that was going to be even better than whatever that was. And sometimes it's just saying, look, here's a tool, like, here's a wheel, it's a circle, let's just start with that. You can maybe optimize it into a triangle or square later if you want. But like, let's just start with what's been proven and just go from there.

Brad Sorock 51:35

Right? Absolutely. Yeah. No, it's It's powerful. I recommend it. I mean, you do have to be a certain size. Although, you know, even on my startup, I was already using the old sheets. Well, what's my three year target? What are my unique things like that, that I found that even good are probably not enough to hire an implementer early on, but at least having read the book and know the book and have the sheets that they offer? I think I'm sure they're free online that you can at least start filling in the gaps and be thinking in that direction. It's really

William Harris 52:08

well in what's interesting is I would typically say that yeah, it makes sense at least have a couple people in the company, I do know of one company that started it from employee one from what I understand. And you know, this person as well. Matt means did this with yardstick. So Justin coffin burgle rally ventures, he was the one who's telling me that Matt was starting with us from like, you know, in full one day one, like strict EOS implementation. And it's worked out very well for them. And I've been meaning to follow up with him. And just I almost want to kind of document his journey. Maybe that'd be a good episode sometime of like, what was it like to start with you? You don't have right person right seat yet because there aren't any seats necessarily.

Brad Sorock 52:46

That would be a great guest. He is fascinating. He's a really good story. A strong entrepreneur, he too is a classic visionary, like yourself and myself of guy is all over the place. And yeah, and that doesn't surprise me. Yes, I know. He was a big fan of EOS. And I actually did it as well. When I just when I started. That was the very first like, let me just start to feel what are my core values of this business? Yeah. So I started that early to Yeah, you don't need to you don't need to have a big company to do it. But you would you wouldn't hire somebody to implement it until you're sure have it at an executive team. But

William Harris 53:22

yeah, I'm transitioning a little bit into the personal side of who you are. Although I feel like so much of that has been woven throughout what we're doing. And one other question that I thought was interesting and unique when we were talking was what kind of vehicle Do you drive?

Brad Sorock 53:39

Right? Oh, that's um that's funny you asked that. I do think I'll say what kind of vehicle I drive I think what kind of vehicle you drive says a lot about you. Doesn't have to be it couldn't be it's all part of it. Actually. What kind of car maybe what year are you the type of Steve Jobs drove got a new Mercedes every six months so he didn't have yet a reason behind it. So he didn't have to have it could be anonymous with his plates or whatever it was. Whatever. How clean is your car on the outside or how clean was is it on the inside? Are you one that made modifications to it? Are you one that just doesn't care? I think it says a lot about personality. I have been a drive and just an f1 50 And it's a I think it's a 2017 This is 2023 right now so six years old, I like that a good it's aluminum It Gets Better to good gas mileage. I'm it could be dirty on the outside but generally I like my vehicle clean on the inside I like I'm a barefoot kind of guy as much as I can be. As soon as I get in my car I tend to in waste in the summer I take my sandals off and at bare feet so I like a clean carpet on my feet more so that I don't really care what the outside looks like. It's kind of got dings on and it doesn't really bother me. So and my my biggest thing when I went to buy a truck was it has to have a sunroof. So and I buy used I don't buy new on that. So yeah, so, in fact, so I did at one point I bought a BMW and I had a, an x five. And I thought like, this is success, like what is it and I, the more I'm driving away, because I don't know if this is me. I mean it is great. It's German engineered, it's great and, and it was questioning it. And one day I got up from my early morning walk at sunrise, and the car's gone. And like, oh my god, they stole the car. Well, one thing I liked about it is you could leave the keys in it and you just hit the push button, then you could sit not advised in the city here. And we took they actually went to Wall I saw like they had my credit cards my wall was that I had done a swim the day before. And so I left everything in there. And so I called the police and then like I know where they went, that's on video, you can go up to Walgreens or Walmart, down and south of here and one of the suburbs and we don't have time for this man, your car stolen. If we get back we'll call you. Really you don't want to do anything. It's like, wow, I guess they were too busy with other stuff. But also for me. I was upset and grieved for not even five minutes that it was like if this thing wasn't meant to be anyways, I'm insured. Maybe they needed more than I do. And if it comes back it does. If it doesn't, it's okay. And I was like I'm better in my f150 Anyways, and I had been driving a five speed 2001 F 150 with a stick because Mike I want to make his own manual. And that there was rusting out and getting dangerous in but so that's what I drive. How about you?

William Harris 56:40

Yeah, I'm actually right there with you at 150 as well. 2000 lemons, you got me beat a little bit. But you know, it's got plenty of nicks and dings and some Ross now and I tell people that it's like I don't just drive a truck, I drive an actual truck, a real truck, because it's not a real truck unless you've got some of that stuff on there. And this thing has been put through the wringer with more Menards chips than you could ever possibly imagine. Fix it up 150 year old house 153 Actually now. And so it's a real truck, which, which I think we talked about as well. There's a buddy of mine, Allen Burt runs a company called Blue Stout. And he talked about on Twitter the one day he was just got a new truck and I was like good, go put a dent in it. And then I'll call it a truck right now. I'm not calling a truck if you don't have any dents in it.

Brad Sorock 57:21

My father in law ex father in law who I really admired, and he's passed, but he bought a new F 150 I don't know was every 10 years any he took a crowbar to it and just hit it one time. The fender literally. And he said now it's you know, now it's a truck, you know, and through the door on the back like, Yeah, some people are like that, I don't mind the dings. You don't like us, but I know I have an aluminum. That's the advantage of the new shirt. Although probably the next car will be electric. But I thought about buying electric and I'm an environmentalist. I'd call myself you know, to a degree and but I thought you know, all the research I did if you're going to buy a new car, it's not as environmentally friendly as just keeping your old. So struck deserves me fine. And I'm going to drive it to the ground, I'm sure. And my kids will still be pissed at me.

William Harris 58:12

No. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Brad Sorock 58:15

Well, my son thanked me he was in Italy for a semester abroad and he had to rent a car and they only offered stick shifts. And he called and said, Alright, dad, alright, thank you for making me learn to drive the truck and stick ship. And He also thanked me for learning a second language, which I made him go to Spanish Immersion as a kid. So

William Harris 58:32

that is good. They usually come back around, don't they? And say, Oh, thanks, eventually. I was just gonna comment on on I appreciate the the foresight and thoughts that you had about, you know, what's the more environmental decision in that situation and, and there's not necessarily a knock for neck for buying a electric vehicle or continuing to keep your used one, right. Like there are environmental things on both sides of that their environmental, there's a lot of things, I think it's a much more complicated problem, than we oftentimes like to think of that. One of the things that I tell my daughters, 1310 and seven is that we couldn't actually all switched to electric or we couldn't all switch to solar, we couldn't all switch to wind or geothermal or any of them if we switch the entire world to one particular source of energy will destroy our Earth in every single way possible. It takes it takes a blend of all of these different energy sources, I think to be able to find like this homeostasis as much as possible.

Brad Sorock 59:39

I agree. And we don't need to go into politics but you have like, are we rushing this electric there's no doubt it provides good and I've driven them and oh my god, and it's cheaper if you have a solar on your roof like this makes perfect sense. You know, but where are these batteries coming for up from or are we moving too fast? And I don't claim to know I'm not the expert. Same, but I did think of when I was buying it like, I don't need to go out to buy one just because I can like, this truck is fine. Why do I need a new? I don't in one day I will. And that'll probably be the next one. And by then we'll probably have more of the infrastructure. And so yeah, I did that for sure.

William Harris 1:00:19

Yeah. So when we talk about EOS, and we talked about our mission, vision values are the values that we have an Elumynt we have, we have three of them, which is be innovative, be accountable, be human. And when he talked about being human, the thing that we talked about here, and I'll just read what it is here, it says, We are human beings. We have emotions, we have families and friends and pets, we have good days and bad days, and even some meh days, we have hopes and dreams and fears and heartbreaks. And the same is true for our clients, our team, our vendors, and everyone else that we come in contact with even the people on the road as we drive to work. So we will make sure that we are a positive influence on every precious human life to the best extent possible, we will take the time to listen, we will communicate purposefully, thoroughly and kindly, we will opt for more light hearted playful communication whenever possible, while recognizing the need for seriousness at appropriate times as well. And while we do have people relying on us counting on us, we recognize that we are not perfect that we need to be as kind to ourselves as we are to others, out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks, we recognize that if we want to be a positive influence on those around us, we must protect our hearts by showing ourselves grace as well. We must recognize that we're not alone, take time off, establish good habits and advocate for ourselves in our teammates against unrealistic expectations.

Brad Sorock 1:01:36

Wow. Okay. He posted that somewhere. Are you home? Not

William Harris 1:01:41

yet. Did you read this will be the first time?

Brad Sorock 1:01:43

Yeah, that's you should post that. That room? I mean, I'm sure you've heard of deciduous data. I mean, that's No, you'd have to look it up. I'm not going to read it. But to center it. We should put it maybe in the show notes or some Sure. That's one of those. Something similar to that. I mean, those were that's pretty profound. Really, really nice. And I try to live by that too. Yes, we are. There is people in my life that I don't like don't want to be around a voyeur. Loud vexations to the spirit is what they say into sudra. But they end treating, there's one I don't follow too much. But on YouTube, I follow a channel called the Invisible People. And it's about as a homeless guy and ex homeless guy who goes around and interviews homeless people and I have found myself like we you don't have to be a wealthy person to make a difference. And make big difference on big levels. And maybe that's their role. But my role sometimes is just somebody's outside the bagel shop and can I begging for money? Can I just Can I buy you lunch? I'd be happy to do that. And then more than that, like you would you like to sit with us. And I had that with my daughter, we bought the sky a homeless guy. And she was 16 at the time. And at first I was like dad really? Like, yeah, this is and we all had a great meal together, we sat and we had pizza together. Um, so in that little bit of being somewhat attention and not to say we you know, there is evil in the world. That is absolutely, things can happen. My car got stolen, but it's okay. We'll move on. It's just a car, really, I had insurance. So

William Harris 1:03:27

we have talked about so much today. If I was going to try to summarize even just a fraction of this, I mean, you know, the takeaways for somebody, then one of those would be checkout Returns For Sale. Because if you run an e-commerce store, this is going to be a cash flow improvement for you during a time when you might be a little bit more strapped for cash. So it's just a wise move. I would also say, remembering that we are all human, be kind to yourself, be kind to the people around you, your team, your vendors, you know, your agency who's helping you grow your business during the recession, lots of opportunity to be kind. And, yeah, I mean, to think positive thoughts as well. Right. Like,

Brad Sorock 1:04:11

I appreciate the plug wasn't intended at all. So I know it wasn't, but I'm saying, but I appreciate that. Certainly we're trying to help. And yeah, you have to I know we've met in person, and I appreciate your positive outlook on life and your willingness to be vulnerable. And I appreciate you having me on the show.

William Harris 1:04:29

Yeah. Likewise, if people wanted to connect with you follow you work with you. What's the best way for them to get in touch?

Brad Sorock 1:04:37

Oh, that's a good one. You're not going to really follow me anywhere. I'm not that kind. But I am returnsforsale.com. And if you reach out through there, I mean, I'm Brad@returnsforsale.com. You can add my personal email, but the giving it all goes to me we're a small company and you could reach out that way and I love chatting to people about any and all this. So

William Harris 1:04:55

yeah. Brad, thank you again for coming out and everybody else. Thank you for listening in and have a good rest of your day

Brad Sorock 1:05:01

All right thanks William.

Outro 1:05:02

Thanks for listening to the Up Arrow Podcast with William Harris. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.

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